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My New Stance on Agf.io
#1
While thinking about the Agf server during the past few months, I have changed my stance on a few things. For reference, you can read the thread I wrote last summer here. However, I do not think of this thread as a contradiction to the one I wrote last summer, but rather a continuation of it. The only real fundamental difference between the two is that instead of blaming teamers for being the main cause of Agf’s disbalance, I am now looking at the server as a whole and attempting to rebalance the server without singling out any specific playstyle.

For those who do not already know, the SOLO Agf.io server was not always a solo server. Teaming was allowed from 2015 when the game first started until late 2019 when it became a solo server. Even then, the SOLO tag was nothing more than a suggestion; some abided, some did not. Players never faced any penalties for teaming until the summer of 2020, when moderators were given the freeze option, which freezes players for 20 seconds and gives them a pop-up message on their screens that says “NO TEAMING. SIN EQUIPO.”

However, the solo rule was enforced in Agf long before it became a solo server, except as a social norm rather than as a law. A group of players called “Team Busters”, or TB, would target and savage teams as their top priority. This group was founded by Démone, who is now a moderator. TB was a big group, and many other players that were not even in TB still shared this passionate hatred for teams. Light is another moderator who supposedly never teamed on the original server, and she was not in TB. I am also a moderator, and I openly teamed on the original server. I took a break from Agf for a while, and when I came back, it was renamed from “Agarioforums.io” to “SOLO Agf.io.” I abided by the solo rule out of fairness.

The funny thing is, Démone and Light both openly team on other servers. This means that they did not think that teaming was inherently bad, but rather that it was just not suitable for Agf. When I asked them, the only reason they gave was that Agf was “too small” for teams. At the time, I accepted that answer, but during the past few months, I gave Agf some serious thought, analyzing everything from its physics to its players, and the resulting dynamics that emerge from them. What I realized was that Agf is too small for a LOT of things, not just teams. Players can virus-farm 20k-30k mass in less than a minute, enough to give them a clear view of the entire map. Players at this size can easily wander around the map, breaking all new viruses that spawn, while other inexperienced players are farming viruses out of desperation in every corner of the map, unknowingly using up the server’s entire supply of viruses. Virus-farming is not only an effective way to get big, but also to STAY big. Many players constantly escape death with this cheap method. They can easily go from losing to winning, just by holding their W key. All of these things can be criticized using the “too small” argument, yet no one is trying to make them banworthy. It is absurd to shame teaming as the only form of unfair play and the main cause of the server’s disbalance; in fact, teaming is sometimes necessary to restore the server’s balance, especially when large players are receiving and capitalizing on help from randoms and fans.

However, in order for teams to officially be allowed back into Agf, other adjustments must be made to accommodate and maintain balance:

1) Fix Virus-Farming
Virus-farming is not an inherently bad mechanic. Even in a theoretically perfect server, there would still inevitably be times when the server is unbalanced and/or lacking in mass. Virus-farming is a nice way to restore balance and create more mass in the game. Currently, even when the server is at its most balanced, the vast majority of the server’s mass is circulated virus mass. However, virus-farming is easily exploited. Virus-farming is meant for players to get a headstart in mass, especially when they are beginners, but many players virus-farm mid-battle. Even Agf’s most skilled players sometimes struggle to beat them, especially when they are abusing it nonstop. Lowering the mass of viruses seems like a good idea at first, but it would have many unwanted side effects. Currently, the best solution I can think of is keeping the mass of the same, except for specifically when a player shoots a virus directly into themselves. This means that the viruses’ mass would ONLY be less when the player who shoots the virus also eats the virus while the virus is still in motion. I would love to discuss alternative solutions, but whatever solution is implemented should be enough for players to farm up to no more than about 8k-12k.

2) Fix Virus Maximum
A virus maximum is set in all servers to prevent the server from crashing from too many viruses. However, the virus maximum in Agf is reached way more often than it should. This usually happens when someone is struggling to virus-farm and is creating more viruses than they are eating. The virus maximum should be raised if possible, but once the number of viruses reaches its threshold in the game, one of the viruses should be deleted to allow for a new one to spawn, only in emergencies. The virus that is deleted should not be the oldest one, but rather the least important one. This would most likely be a virus that is inside a large cluster of viruses and has no significance in any battle.

3) Fix Food Pellets
While Agf has the smallest map of all of Agma’s servers, map size is only an illusion. Our perception of the map’s size is just a combination of cell speed and mass density. I think that the current cell speed is perfect. It allows players to conveniently resume battles after they die and spawn back in the game. The problem is the mass density. There are several periods throughout the day when no experienced players are on, so it is just a few players barely above spawn mass aimlessly roaming the map, too afraid to fight anyone. During the other periods of the day, there are 1-2 large players casually savaging everyone else. Either way, the server is almost never balanced. Agf should have an algorithm that measures the server’s balance, considering factors such as the number of players and their mass proportions, and automatically adjusts the food pellet mass and production rate accordingly. When changes were made to the server in the summer of 2020, the food pellets were tripled in mass to try to give smaller players a headstart, but it actually ended up helping bigger players get bigger, since more mass was in circulation. Making the pellets larger also indirectly affected the physics, because a player’s tiny pieces used in virus battles would get really big over a shorter period of time and unintentionally break the viruses. Because of this, the pellets were set back to normal. I think that the mass and production rate of the food pellets should be fluid and change according to the server’s current conditions. I have a few ideas in my head for how to achieve this mathematically without affecting the server’s physics, but I may explain them in a different thread on another day.

I understand that Sora is a busy man and is currently working on a lot of different things in Agma, but I am hoping that he can set aside some time to really focus on Agf. I am hoping that Sora and some of Agf’s most experienced players can collaborate by altering and experimenting with Agf’s variables to fine-tune it to the best server it can be.
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[-] The following 1 user Likes DoctorFinkle's post:
  • Sora
#2
Quote:However, in order for teams to officially be allowed back into Agf, other adjustments must be made to accommodate and maintain balance:

so you want teams to be allowed in agf? i don't understand your viewpoint right now, lol

Quote:1) Fix Virus-Farming

Virus-farming is not an inherently bad mechanic. Even in a theoretically perfect server, there would still inevitably be times when the server is unbalanced and/or lacking in mass. Virus-farming is a nice way to restore balance and create more mass in the game. Currently, even when the server is at its most balanced, the vast majority of the server’s mass is circulated virus mass. However, virus-farming is easily exploited. Virus-farming is meant for players to get a headstart in mass, especially when they are beginners, but many players virus-farm mid-battle. Even Agf’s most skilled players sometimes struggle to beat them, especially when they are abusing it nonstop. Lowering the mass of viruses seems like a good idea at first, but it would have many unwanted side effects. Currently, the best solution I can think of is keeping the mass of the same, except for specifically when a player shoots a virus directly into themselves. This means that the viruses’ mass would ONLY be less when the player who shoots the virus also eats the virus while the virus is still in motion. I would love to discuss alternative solutions, but whatever solution is implemented should be enough for players to farm up to no more than about 8k-12k.

i think this solution also has its flaws... before SOLO agf existed (the old version of agf), i remember you could still virus farm but only to about 5k-10k mass (i think). Not sure what changed there, but if it could be reversed, then I believe it solves this issue without needing unnecessary patches to virus farming

Quote:2) Fix Virus Maximum

A virus maximum is set in all servers to prevent the server from crashing from too many viruses. However, the virus maximum in Agf is reached way more often than it should. This usually happens when someone is struggling to virus-farm and is creating more viruses than they are eating. The virus maximum should be raised if possible, but once the number of viruses reaches its threshold in the game, one of the viruses should be deleted to allow for a new one to spawn, only in emergencies. The virus that is deleted should not be the oldest one, but rather the least important one. This would most likely be a virus that is inside a large cluster of viruses and has no significance in any battle.

I disagree with the virus cap needing to be higher, as without virus farming on the map, it's pretty rare for the server to hit the virus cap

Quote:3) Fix Food Pellets

While Agf has the smallest map of all of Agma’s servers, map size is only an illusion. Our perception of the map’s size is just a combination of cell speed and mass density. I think that the current cell speed is perfect. It allows players to conveniently resume battles after they die and spawn back in the game. The problem is the mass density. There are several periods throughout the day when no experienced players are on, so it is just a few players barely above spawn mass aimlessly roaming the map, too afraid to fight anyone. During the other periods of the day, there are 1-2 large players casually savaging everyone else. Either way, the server is almost never balanced. Agf should have an algorithm that measures the server’s balance, considering factors such as the number of players and their mass proportions, and automatically adjusts the food pellet mass and production rate accordingly. When changes were made to the server in the summer of 2020, the food pellets were tripled in mass to try to give smaller players a headstart, but it actually ended up helping bigger players get bigger, since more mass was in circulation. Making the pellets larger also indirectly affected the physics, because a player’s tiny pieces used in virus battles would get really big over a shorter period of time and unintentionally break the viruses. Because of this, the pellets were set back to normal. I think that the mass and production rate of the food pellets should be fluid and change according to the server’s current conditions. I have a few ideas in my head for how to achieve this mathematically without affecting the server’s physics, but I may explain them in a different thread on another day.

I think a food algorithm could be a nice thing for ALL servers, but maybe differently from how you see it: the more players in the server, the more food that spawns & the fewer players in the server, the less food that spawns. I think it would make EXP more fair, but again, this is not something without flaws. If too little mass is a problem without virus farming, there are better solutions than changing food (which apparently also changes physics). For example, you can increase spawn mass or maybe increase the amount of mass that mass pellets give in rooms 1 & 2. If the mass pellets give more, then decay should also be significantly higher, so players can't camp there and get a lot of mass, although I suppose they can sit in the portal and gain mass for 5 minutes. 

I haven't played agf in months because of its condition, but I do know it's never easy to solve every problem and make everyone happy   Undecided
[-] The following 5 users Like Fishy's post:
  • DoctorFinkle, fisa, Light*, MasterXM, Sora
#3
Actually the solo server was always a solo server....You were playing on another server at the time of the transition but there was another one before this one called agarioforum with different mechanics and powerups where big teamers took over and it was impossible to play. That's why another server was created only for the solos. That solo agf began with teaming penalty to refrain the teamers and when that feature was removed then the MODs came on. Both servers were there at the same time but since there was not enough players for both server Sora decided to keep only one.

I love teaming but not when teaming hurts everybody else around and stop other people from playing for hours, I would feel selfish to do it, which is what was happening in that server... (I did team a couple of times in the agarioforum to try it but did not do it for long for exactly the reason stated)

Otherwise I do agree that there is an imbalance in the server.
[Image: Lightsig.png]
[-] The following 4 users Like Light*'s post:
  • Démone, fisa, Redfox, Sora
#4
I wonder why is it so 'funny' that I sometimes team up on other servers? Did I already say that I hate teams and that no one should team? NO ! It's a playstyle, it's my preference to play solo but I've always respected  teamers. There are several servers where teams are allowed and having a solo server is beneficial for people  who prefer this kind of play like me. At the time, several solo players asked to have this kind of server and without powers up (including a certain person ....). There were powers up and a large number of teamers. It made the server difficult for some to play. This solo vs Teams rivalry happened long before TB. You weren't there, I was. I was reading the chat. It has always existed. One day, a clan was created, they all teamed together and all exchanged their mass within them, hence the reason at the time that I created TB. It was difficult for some less experienced players to play it solo. Players have complained on the chat so I created TB and I admit with very qualified players (I was careful in my choice, they had to be able to eat a team in solo). Each member had the same spirit: not to use powers up - not to camp and of course to play solo.  It was just a challenge for the TB members, a good challenge, including mine. I remember a nice player, a great teamer too, polite, nice to everyone, a real good guy and very 'friendly' and one day he stopped teaming. He became a TB member. If I had had hatred, would I have accepted him or would I have greeted him with such a big smile?
[-] The following 3 users Like Démone's post:
  • fisa, Light*, Sora
#5
I do have to agree with Demone and Light, That Solo agf should stay very much a solo server. Like them, I have been here since nearly the beginning, and have seen the many iterations, changes, and servers over the last 4-5 years. I do feel what we have finally landed on in the Solo AGF is the best Iteration of the server that has been made to date. Could it be improved; I am sure it could in some way. Does it work well as intended; it does.

One thing to keep in perspective, especially when you turn the clock back to 2017, is that the spiritual predecessor of the Current Solo AGF, was the agarioforums sever. This server was a free for all, solo play, team playing, power using. This server was also full of people, but….it was really the only server. It was the main server back then that everyone played in. In that format, it worked well, because it was crowded and dynamic. With the migration to Agma, New servers became the norm. There were new servers to meet different types of play styles, that expanded the player base of the game. New servers were created that catered much better to teaming dynamics. Solo players were pretty much stuck with a very few certain servers that that game style was possible. Looking at the Agma game now overall, it’s a different world then it used to be…which is a good thing. There are many options for whatever style of play you want. Preserving that range of playstyles is important, it can’t all be accomplished in one server. Having the multitude of servers that are available now, gives the player the choice of how they want to play and where to play. Allowing teaming in the Solo AGF server will just widdle away the diversity of gameplay that Agma offers.

Now, with all the servers that are available in Agma, having a few solo servers that are dedicated to solo play is perfectly acceptable. Teamers have choice after choice of server, let solo players have a few playgrounds they can play in that suit the solo playstyle.
[Image: SurakAtticus.png]
[-] The following 5 users Like SurakAtticus's post:
  • Démone, DoctorFinkle, fisa, Light*, Sora
#6
(03-23-2021, 01:28 AM)Fishy Wrote: so you want teams to be allowed in agf? i don't understand your viewpoint right now, lol

Yes, I want teams to be allowed in Agf. However, many people were unhappy with the original server because having a small map and power-ups being available made it too easy for players to stay on top, especially big teams. This is why before teaming can officially be allowed again, the server needs to be rebalanced, and this would be accomplished by keeping power-ups disabled as well as implementing a food algorithm that aims to maintain a fairly consistent mass density to make up for having a small map.

(03-23-2021, 01:28 AM)Fishy Wrote: i think this solution [for virus-farming] also has its flaws... before SOLO agf existed (the old version of agf), i remember you could still virus farm but only to about 5k-10k mass (i think). Not sure what changed there, but if it could be reversed, then I believe it solves this issue without needing unnecessary patches to virus farming

I also think this may be true. I am also pretty sure that the original Agf had slightly different physics, but I am not entirely sure, I would need to look into that.

(03-23-2021, 01:28 AM)Fishy Wrote: I disagree with the virus cap needing to be higher, as without virus farming on the map, it's pretty rare for the server to hit the virus cap

Virus-farming would still be possible, just not to the extent that it currently is. I want virus-farming to be weakened, not entirely removed.

(03-23-2021, 01:28 AM)Fishy Wrote: I think a food algorithm could be a nice thing for ALL servers, but maybe differently from how you see it: the more players in the server, the more food that spawns & the fewer players in the server, the less food that spawns. I think it would make EXP more fair, but again, this is not something without flaws. If too little mass is a problem without virus farming, there are better solutions than changing food (which apparently also changes physics). For example, you can increase spawn mass or maybe increase the amount of mass that mass pellets give in rooms 1 & 2. If the mass pellets give more, then decay should also be significantly higher, so players can't camp there and get a lot of mass, although I suppose they can sit in the portal and gain mass for 5 minutes.

I agree that a food algorithm would be nice for all servers. However, making it solely dependent upon the number of players in the server may be a bit too simplistic. For example, when fewer players are in the server, MORE food would need to spawn, not less, in order to maintain a consistent mass density (I am pretty sure Agar.io does something similar to this). However, things get much more complicated when more players are on. Our intuition says that more food should spawn, but as was seen last summer, it actually helped bigger players more. However, if there is not enough food on the map, smaller players would not ever be able to get big, for obvious reasons. I am beginning to think that maybe in addition to implementing a food algorithm, the mass decay rate could also be adjusted ever so slightly. This may introduce new problems, so such an algorithm would require a lot of testing. Like you said, a food algorithm would be nice for all servers, and I would love to work side by side with @Sora to perfect existing servers as well as those to come.

(03-23-2021, 02:05 AM)Light* Wrote: Actually the solo server was always a solo server....You were playing on another server at the time of the transition but there was another one before this one called agarioforum with different mechanics and powerups where big teamers took over and it was impossible to play.  That's why another server was created only for the solos.  That solo agf  began with teaming penalty to refrain the teamers and when that feature was removed then the MODs came on.  Both servers were there at the same time but since there was not enough players for both server Sora decided to keep only one.

If I am understanding you correctly, there used to be an Agarioforums.io server, then a solo server was created that was similar to Agarioforums.io, then Agarioforums.io was deleted? Either way, there was a time when teaming was allowed in an Agf server, now it is not.

(03-23-2021, 02:05 AM)Light* Wrote: I love teaming but not when teaming hurts everybody else around and stop other people from playing for hours, I would feel selfish to do it, which is what was happening in that server... (I did team a couple of times in the agarioforum to try it but did not do it for long for exactly the reason stated)

My goal is to create an Agf server where teaming is allowed, but make adjustments to balance the server so that no one would feel selfish for teaming. Moderators may have been a good solution in the short-term, but they cannot be relied on forever; we need a server that can naturally regulate itself. This is what should have been done in the first place rather than prohibiting teams altogether.

(03-23-2021, 03:07 AM)Démone Wrote: I wonder why is it so 'funny' that I sometimes team up on other servers? Did I already say that I hate teams and that no one should team? NO ! It's a playstyle, it's my preference to play solo but I've always respected  teamers.

I am not trying to criticize you or Light for teaming on other servers, I only meant that it made me begin to question the way things are to understand the root of the problem and the reasons why certain players have the views that they have. I never meant to sound offensive, sorry if I did.

(03-23-2021, 03:07 AM)Démone Wrote: This solo vs Teams rivalry happened long before TB. You weren't there, I was. I was reading the chat. It has always existed.

I understand that TB was not the first group to be against teams, I just listed it as an example to show how the opinions that you and Light have about teaming in Agf are different from mine.

(03-23-2021, 03:07 AM)Démone Wrote: I remember a nice player, a great teamer too, polite, nice to everyone, a real good guy and very 'friendly' and one day he stopped teaming. He became a TB member. If I had had hatred, would I have accepted him or would I have greeted him with such a big smile?

When I said "hatred," I did not mean literally hating teamers as human beings, but rather being strongly against teaming in general.

(03-23-2021, 01:20 PM)SurakAtticus Wrote: I do have to agree with Demone and Light, That Solo agf should stay very much a solo server.  Like them, I have been here since nearly the beginning, and have seen the many iterations, changes, and servers over the last 4-5 years.  I do feel what we have finally landed on in the Solo AGF is the best Iteration of the server that has been made to date.  Could it be improved; I am sure it could in some way.  Does it work well as intended; it does.

I agree that Agf is currently in its best iteration, since it is the first time that power-ups were disabled as well as not having the anti-teaming algorithm. However, I disagree that the solo server works as well as intended, since moderators cannot always be available, and even when they are, they can sometimes unintentionally unbalance the server even more. This is why I want a self-regulating server where solo players and teams can have fair battles without relying on moderators.

(03-23-2021, 01:20 PM)SurakAtticus Wrote: One thing to keep in perspective, especially when you turn the clock back to 2017, is that the spiritual predecessor of the Current Solo AGF, was the agarioforums sever.  This server was a free for all, solo play, team playing, power using.  This server was also full of people, but….it was really the only server.  It was the main server back then that everyone played in.  In that format, it worked well, because it was crowded and dynamic.  With the migration to Agma, New servers became the norm.  There were new servers to meet different types of play styles, that expanded the player base of the game.  New servers were created that catered much better to teaming dynamics.  Solo players were pretty much stuck with a very few certain servers that that game style was possible.  Looking at the Agma game now overall, it’s a different world then it used to be…which is a good thing.  There are many options for whatever style of play you want.  Preserving that range of playstyles is important, it can’t all be accomplished in one server.   Having the multitude of servers that are available now, gives the player the choice of how they want to play and where to play.  Allowing teaming in the Solo AGF server will just widdle away the diversity of gameplay that Agma offers.  

Now, with all the servers that are available in Agma, having a few solo servers that are dedicated to solo play is perfectly acceptable.  Teamers have choice after choice of server, let solo players have a few playgrounds they can play in that suit the solo playstyle.

I agree with this. The server that I am envisioning is a server that has never existed, and I imagine solo play still being mostly preserved. In both solo servers, the one from 2019 with anti-teaming and the one from 2020 without anti-teaming, the solo players have done a fairly good job of keeping teamers down without relying on moderators. They did not need to to stay in one piece in constant fear of the teamers eating them, they were able to confidently participate in large, action-packed 1v1v1v1's, and the chaos itself was usually enough to keep the server balanced for hours. This balance is usually only acheived when at least 3-4 skilled players are on, but many skilled Agf players are playing less these days because this balance is not consistent and only exists during brief periods throughout the week. More players will start playing more consistently if this balance is consistently maintained, so I think that the server that I am suggesting may be the new best iteration.
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[-] The following 1 user Likes DoctorFinkle's post:
  • fisa
#7
Thank you for supporting freedom for the agf server.  As many of us may agree, it is the heart of Agma.  I believe it should be open free to all play styles!!  Open the gates!!!
[-] The following 2 users Like Mindless's post:
  • DoctorFinkle, fisa
#8
I'll see what I can do regarding an extra server (in addition to solo agf).
The food effect you describe can be achieved - food that grows over time. Example:

At spawn: Food mass = 1
30 secs later : Food mass = 2
60 secs later: Food mass = 3
...repeat until the max food cap at 6

As long as the food has not been consumed, it will grow in size. A dense or populated server won't have very large food, since it will constantly get consumed.
Have any questions? Send me a message here: http://agarioforums.net/private.php?action=send&uid=1
[-] The following 3 users Like Sora's post:
  • Démone, fisa, Fishy
#9
(03-24-2021, 12:35 AM)Sora Wrote: I'll see what I can do regarding an extra server (in addition to solo agf).
The food effect you describe can be achieved - food that grows over time. Example:

At spawn: Food mass = 1
30 secs later : Food mass = 2
60 secs later: Food mass = 3
...repeat until the max food cap at 6

As long as the food has not been consumed, it will grow in size. A dense or populated server won't have very large food, since it will constantly get consumed.

Thanks Sora, I would be interested in two servers if they were both open to teaming.  One being experimental and the other being a more fixed, polished agf.  I think having a teaming server and a solo server would take away from the the balance of players that would make it work right.  We need just one ultimate server mechanics that we battle to have the luxury to play and use it.
#10
(03-24-2021, 12:35 AM)Sora Wrote: I'll see what I can do regarding an extra server (in addition to solo agf).
The food effect you describe can be achieved - food that grows over time. Example:

At spawn: Food mass = 1
30 secs later : Food mass = 2
60 secs later: Food mass = 3
...repeat until the max food cap at 6

As long as the food has not been consumed, it will grow in size. A dense or populated server won't have very large food, since it will constantly get consumed.

This is an interesting idea. This would have unwanted side effects, such as pieces growing faster than usual and causing players to unintentionally break viruses during virus battles, but I have an idea to counter this: the piece that consumes a pellet increases its mass by 1, and the rest of the mass is distributed among the rest of the pieces. This distribution would not be uniform; pieces farther away from the consumed pellet would get less of the mass and pieces closer to the consumed pellet would get more of the mass, in order to maintain a natural growth rate. Maybe we can collect data samples of random players to find a precise formula for this distribution.
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#11
I think Sora's solution here is really damn smart lol... 

Finky, the unwanted side effect you described wouldn't be much of an issue. If there is a fight happening, the food around the war will remain small because it's constantly being eaten. The food on the corners/edges of the map will start to grow and become bigger, which allows small players to grow quickly by eating those. I also think this might already be put in place, but maybe not at agf. Although if it is, then I believe the times should be cut in half like food mass 1 (0 seconds) -> food mass 2 (15 seconds) -> food mass 3 (30 seconds). 60 seconds is too long for the food to grow, even if the server isn't very alive. Growing all pieces at once would create too much mass. Unless you split 1 food into 64 pieces (which would happen in some circumstances), but that is complex... a more straightforward solution (such as what Sora suggested) seems better in this case.

But yeah, 2 servers would probably make everyone happy. The only issue I can foresee is either one not having enough players in either server because at the moment, at some times of the day, Agf.io has 5-10 players... cut in half, that's not very good numbers.
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#12
(03-24-2021, 03:56 AM)Mindless Wrote:
(03-24-2021, 12:35 AM)Sora Wrote: I'll see what I can do regarding an extra server (in addition to solo agf).
The food effect you describe can be achieved - food that grows over time. Example:

At spawn: Food mass = 1
30 secs later : Food mass = 2
60 secs later: Food mass = 3
...repeat until the max food cap at 6

As long as the food has not been consumed, it will grow in size. A dense or populated server won't have very large food, since it will constantly get consumed.

Thanks Sora, I would be interested in two servers if they were both open to teaming.  

I remember your own words about your fight for a solo server and in order to get one you teamed so much that you made it unplayable (ss of you saying that) and now you want a teaming server.... oups not only one ... 2 servers !!!! funny and so much contradictory. 

I am glad Sora is thinking of both kind of players. Several solos players asked to have this solo server and we should think about all the people and made everyone happy ! If there is a possibility to have 2 servers and both are for teams ... i don't get the point to do that and no offense but i find it ' selfish' that you ask ... and.... beneficial only for one side .
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#13
In regards to the variable pellets.  That is something that can be done in an experimental agf.. I think it is important to have a fixed pellet size so the player can have a feel for what will and what won’t work.  A lot of moves are done out of instinct, and if the pellets were changing in size it may cause inconsistent capability of maneuvers being successfully performed.  The spaces in-between splitting cells are sometimes left best as open spaces and not too crowded with over sized pellets.  Yet experimentally or done as an event, it could be a lot of fun.


Finky, I didn't address your suggested edits because so far I think they are all hogwash.  The server doesn't need rebalancing, it just needs realness.
#14
(03-25-2021, 05:42 AM)Mindless Wrote: Finky, I didn't address your suggested edits because so far I think they are all hogwash.  The server doesn't need rebalancing, it just needs realness.

Besides allowing teaming, what other changes do you suggest should be made to the server?
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#15
(03-26-2021, 04:31 AM)DoctorFinkle Wrote:
(03-25-2021, 05:42 AM)Mindless Wrote: Finky, I didn't address your suggested edits because so far I think they are all hogwash.  The server doesn't need rebalancing, it just needs realness.

Besides allowing teaming, what other changes do you suggest should be made to the server?

Raising the virus limit is the only potential thing I can see right now, but I'm not sure how that would play out.  The virus limit is defensive to virus farmers.  I'd rather have players be more aware to spread virus through out map to keep them spread around and prevent them all getting pooled up in one spot.  As well as its nice to have them stashed all over the place.

I'm only focused on the greatest, most important change and that is freeing the server of being constraint to one style of playing.  Currently the server barely has even 10 people on to fill the leaderboard list all through out the day.  The solo server is stale because it lacks realness.  There is a major lack of interest, we need more things for all the players to do.  Like battle solo players battling powerful teams.  And beyond everything there is a obvious lack of integrity.  It only takes a few moments of spectating to see all the teaming going on under the radar.  To leave it as a solo server is absolutely disgusting.

I'm annoyed with you finky for you coming out and saying you support freedom and then you suggest three edits that would barely do anything to the server besides mess up consistency.  You couldn't sound more unsure of yourself.

And then you go on and ask again what changes I think should be made..  I have told you several times already I think the server is balanced.  The top priority is getting the servers integrity back, making it fun and fair for all.  Any other balances can be tested in either a second server or in short sessions/periods with Sora ready to receive feedback and make adjustments so we are not stuck with crap.


One of the major root problems in original agf was shortage of mass.  It allowed for Team Busters to hold control of the server by having 4 or 5 massive players on the corners and center of the map..  They would savage all except fellow clan members and hog server for themselves.  Despite being one of the best, if not the best player at the time, I had a really hard time playing at all if I didn't have my regular alias on.  Team Busters was a group of selfish teamers in denial.  Many of the clan left, but it's still going on to this day.  They are uninterested in battling each other, they help each other in battles, it is fake soloing, and there is nothing real about it except for real friendship.  For as long as there is a solo server, there will be a haven for them and the likes of them to fake solo.

For the same reason of shortage of mass.  Openly Teaming can be used as a major advantage.  This style of open teaming is going on in short spurts already with players claiming to be solo right now in the current server.  With just the short spurts, players are able to control server for long durations of time AND get away with the teaming.  In order to combat this behavior, teaming needs to be openly available to all so it's not a battle of what hidden teams can get away with what.

Virus farming was the solution to combat both fake soloing and teamers who openly team.  It's important to have the ability to generate mass at any given point on the map.  So if the teamers are on one side of the map, a player has to be able to generate enough mass to combat the teamers on the other side by the time the teamers can finish what they are doing on the one side and then split run across to the other side.  For this same reason both the hidden rooms are really important.  If a player can generate mass via farming with the mass potions there and/or mass farming with the portal.  They have a good chance to combat teamers once they are out.  This is especially true if they can also openly team with friends that may be on.  Once having control of the mass, it's easy for players of skill to keep control, this is something that we are already successfully doing.

Original AGF mechanics were definitely smoother and had better split mechanics.  It's harder to team regardless of it being enforced in the current server.  It has something to do with the viruses being larger or the clank as you once described it. Even though the flow of the current server is inferior to original agf, I am willing to pay that price to have the necessary tools to combat both fake soloing and teaming.  I also really love virus farming and perpetuating mass as the battles go on.  So I'm actually really happy with the addition of virus farming.


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