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Waste of a Server
#1
I have noticed recently, while playing Agma, that there is a cartel in operation on the XY-Insta NA server. This consists of 10 or more "elite" players who farm this server. They prevent all, what they call "randoms", from playing the server by eating them as soon as they spawn on the server.

They seem to work in shifts of protecting and farming this server. They seem to be quite sophisticated and organized. They have:
  • two players in room 2, farming recs and speed powerups
  • one player farming room 1
  • usually two players farming coins from a gold block near the entrance to room 1, while also blocking the entrance to room 1
  • two or three big players patrolling the rest of the map, eating any "randoms" that spawn

If one of the patrolling players gets eaten by a "random", they will all group together and spam powerups until the "random" is eaten.

As a result, this server is currently unplayable unless you are part of this cartel. To make things worse, they then go to other servers and spam the powerups that they have farmed, giving them an unfair advantage. This can ruin the fun for the regular players in these servers.


Another thing I have noticed is, these cartel members can be extremely toxic to any "randoms" in chat. 

They have multiple accounts too, that they call "alts", which are full of powerups.

I am not usually one to post on forums but I think what these guys are doing is just plain WRONG and is not in line with the spirit of Agma.
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#2
I actually made a very similar thread last summer, you can read it here if you want: http://agarioforums.net/showthread.php?tid=66934

I agree with you 100%, these players make the server unplayable. I played there for a few weeks just to chill, but they made this impossible. Anyone who goes anywhere near their sacred corner is instantly ganged up on. Anyone who eats one of them automatically makes their FBI list and is continually bullied, in both the game and the chat. The only way to survive there is by promising them to periodically give the coin farmer your mass, and at that point it is completely pointless.

To some players, Agma is just a giant game of Cookie Clicker lol
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#3
(03-18-2021, 07:30 PM)AgmaFan Wrote: I have noticed recently, while playing Agma, that there is a cartel in operation on the XY-Insta NA server. This consists of 10 or more "elite" players who farm this server. They prevent all, what they call "randoms", from playing the server by eating them as soon as they spawn on the server.

Yea, it's a pretty common thing nowadays in servers such as XY-Insta, Instant EU, Crazy servers, and some others. I, myself, used to abuse it a lot and amassed many coins & power-up alts quickly. It was fun while it lasted, but I'm not a fan of it anymore (it gave me some insight about this topic). The description of "elite" really fits because these are guys who can pretty much play anywhere and use their power-up alts to take over nearly instantly.

Quote:They seem to work in shifts of protecting and farming this server. They seem to be quite sophisticated and organized. They have:
  • two players in room 2, farming recs and speed powerups
  • one player farming room 1
  • usually two players farming coins from a gold block near the entrance to room 1, while also blocking the entrance to room 1
  • two or three big players patrolling the rest of the map, eating any "randoms" that spawn

Yeah, this is a standard setup for most servers, but their approaches can vary from server to server. For example, at Crazy, it's senseless to try to savage a map as big as that. Instead, they take room two and farm the block and use their powers to defend themselves. No matter the server, it ruins the fun, in my opinion.

Quote:If one of the patrolling players gets eaten by a "random", they will all group together and spam powerups until the "random" is eaten.

Yeah, if they do not know you, they treat you as if you're nothing. Even if they know you, they will never play fair. I even went to one of these servers several times, and I had a 'war' with powers... there were at least five spectators dropping abilities on me & 10 other guys on the map either savaging or attacking me all at once; they do NOT know how to play fair.

Quote:As a result, this server is currently unplayable unless you are part of this cartel. To make things worse, they then go to other servers and spam the powerups that they have farmed, giving them an unfair advantage. This can ruin the fun for the regular players in these servers.

I agree with unplayable. If you are not a part of their team, it is impossible to get above 5k mass without being savaged instantly. They do go to other servers and make those unplayable as well. It's not fair to those who want to take the game less seriously and want to enjoy it without spending hours daily farming.

Quote:Another thing I have noticed is, these cartel members can be extremely toxic to any "randoms" in chat. 

Yeah, they think they are high and mighty because they sit around on a gold block filling alt accounts for 8 hours a day...

Quote:They have multiple accounts too, that they call "alts", which are full of powerups.

Many players at these servers have hundreds, and some even thousands of alts filled with 9 recombines and 9 speeds. Think about how much money it would cost to buy 9,000 recombines and powers (I know this doesn't include the other powers you get with that pack, but I think it's still relevant)

Quote:I am not usually one to post on forums but I think what these guys are doing is just plain WRONG and is not in line with the spirit of Agma.

I think your post was excellent and pointed out some significant flaws in these servers.


Solutions?:

I'm not sure if there's a correct approach, but because I have spent a fair amount of time playing unfairly against others and gaining in-game wealth for myself, I have a few ideas:
  • Change recombine & speed spawns. In the past, Sora has banned/locked alts accounts (which is fair, alts aren't meant to be allowed), but I think that alts play a somewhat vital role in balancing out the players that spend money and the players that are free to play. However, alts shouldn't make it entirely unplayable for those who don't farm, so a solution could be to make recombine, and speed spawns MUCH slower in these kinds of servers. Maybe doubling or even tripling the time it takes to spawn would help a ton.
  • Making food (those dots on the ground) be worth more mass. This is something more for XY-Instant because at servers like Instant EU, the food is good where it is. Just by increasing the size of food could make it much easier for so-called 'randoms' to gain mass and put up more of a fight against the players who abuse the server's resources. 
  • Nerf to Gold block? I'm not quite sure about this one because, at its current place, it takes at least 6 hours to farm back bots (900k coins) and to start making a profit, but maybe it could be changed to give 20% fewer coins. If it gave 20% less (120k coins per hour), it would take 7.5 hours to farm back the costs of bots, so that would make it harder for them to gain a ridiculous amount of coins. However, they will likely go to Giant or Gigantic and use their power-up alts to farm with 4 blocks at once, thus getting many coins very fast (this is better than them ruining Instant servers)
  • Bigger map size. Again, not quite sure about this one because the server seems pretty inactive (not sure if that's from these farmers or people just not interested in it). A bigger map can make it harder to savage the smaller players. A bigger map + larger food spawns can make it easier to gain mass without being savaged. 

None of these solutions are perfect, and I hope other people have better ideas than me; lol, but I think it can drastically change the way the server is played for the better. Agma should not be "AFK, savage, power spam, and hold W on the gold block." It should instead be skillful & fun. With these solutions, people would not get so many alts, nor so many coins. Players also wouldn't control the server with such ease and would have to fight others to stay big
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#4
(03-18-2021, 08:25 PM)DoctorFinkle Wrote: I actually made a very similar thread last summer, you can read it here if you want: http://agarioforums.net/showthread.php?tid=66934

I agree with you 100%, these players make the server unplayable. I played there for a few weeks just to chill, but they made this impossible. Anyone who goes anywhere near their sacred corner is instantly ganged up on. Anyone who eats one of them automatically makes their FBI list and is continually bullied, in both the game and the chat. The only way to survive there is by promising them to periodically give the coin farmer your mass, and at that point it is completely pointless.

To some players, Agma is just a giant game of Cookie Clicker lol

Thanks for your reply Doctor Finkle.

I think it may be even worse now then when you raised this issue (if that is possible!). A "random" cannot even spawn without being targeted straight away, they don't even have to go near their precious corner. I have checked if they are there at different times during the day and I have yet to enter the server without some of them being there. I think that 10 is a very conservative estimate of how many are in the cartel. 

If you try to reason with them or eat one of them, they insult your mother. They take toxicity to a new level!

They are not there to play the server but purely to farm and stop others from playing. I was actually amazed at their levels of organization. I saw one player, who appeared to be one of the leaders, commending one of the patrolling players for stopping "randoms". He then went on to say that the patroller could have two hours farming in room 2 tomorrow as a reward!

(03-18-2021, 09:18 PM)Fishy Wrote:
(03-18-2021, 07:30 PM)AgmaFan Wrote: I have noticed recently, while playing Agma, that there is a cartel in operation on the XY-Insta NA server. This consists of 10 or more "elite" players who farm this server. They prevent all, what they call "randoms", from playing the server by eating them as soon as they spawn on the server.

Yea, it's a pretty common thing nowadays in servers such as XY-Insta, Instant EU, Crazy servers, and some others. I, myself, used to abuse it a lot and amassed many coins & power-up alts quickly. It was fun while it lasted, but I'm not a fan of it anymore (it gave me some insight about this topic). The description of "elite" really fits because these are guys who can pretty much play anywhere and use their power-up alts to take over nearly instantly.

Quote:They seem to work in shifts of protecting and farming this server. They seem to be quite sophisticated and organized. They have:
  • two players in room 2, farming recs and speed powerups
  • one player farming room 1
  • usually two players farming coins from a gold block near the entrance to room 1, while also blocking the entrance to room 1
  • two or three big players patrolling the rest of the map, eating any "randoms" that spawn

Yeah, this is a standard setup for most servers, but their approaches can vary from server to server. For example, at Crazy, it's senseless to try to savage a map as big as that. Instead, they take room two and farm the block and use their powers to defend themselves. No matter the server, it ruins the fun, in my opinion.

Quote:If one of the patrolling players gets eaten by a "random", they will all group together and spam powerups until the "random" is eaten.

Yeah, if they do not know you, they treat you as if you're nothing. Even if they know you, they will never play fair. I even went to one of these servers several times, and I had a 'war' with powers... there were at least five spectators dropping abilities on me & 10 other guys on the map either savaging or attacking me all at once; they do NOT know how to play fair.

Quote:As a result, this server is currently unplayable unless you are part of this cartel. To make things worse, they then go to other servers and spam the powerups that they have farmed, giving them an unfair advantage. This can ruin the fun for the regular players in these servers.

I agree with unplayable. If you are not a part of their team, it is impossible to get above 5k mass without being savaged instantly. They do go to other servers and make those unplayable as well. It's not fair to those who want to take the game less seriously and want to enjoy it without spending hours daily farming.

Quote:Another thing I have noticed is, these cartel members can be extremely toxic to any "randoms" in chat. 

Yeah, they think they are high and mighty because they sit around on a gold block filling alt accounts for 8 hours a day...

Quote:They have multiple accounts too, that they call "alts", which are full of powerups.

Many players at these servers have hundreds, and some even thousands of alts filled with 9 recombines and 9 speeds. Think about how much money it would cost to buy 9,000 recombines and powers (I know this doesn't include the other powers you get with that pack, but I think it's still relevant)

Quote:I am not usually one to post on forums but I think what these guys are doing is just plain WRONG and is not in line with the spirit of Agma.

I think your post was excellent and pointed out some significant flaws in these servers.


Solutions?:

I'm not sure if there's a correct approach, but because I have spent a fair amount of time playing unfairly against others and gaining in-game wealth for myself, I have a few ideas:
  • Change recombine & speed spawns. In the past, Sora has banned/locked alts accounts (which is fair, alts aren't meant to be allowed), but I think that alts play a somewhat vital role in balancing out the players that spend money and the players that are free to play. However, alts shouldn't make it entirely unplayable for those who don't farm, so a solution could be to make recombine, and speed spawns MUCH slower in these kinds of servers. Maybe doubling or even tripling the time it takes to spawn would help a ton.
  • Making food (those dots on the ground) be worth more mass. This is something more for XY-Instant because at servers like Instant EU, the food is good where it is. Just by increasing the size of food could make it much easier for so-called 'randoms' to gain mass and put up more of a fight against the players who abuse the server's resources. 
  • Nerf to Gold block? I'm not quite sure about this one because, at its current place, it takes at least 6 hours to farm back bots (900k coins) and to start making a profit, but maybe it could be changed to give 20% fewer coins. If it gave 20% less (120k coins per hour), it would take 7.5 hours to farm back the costs of bots, so that would make it harder for them to gain a ridiculous amount of coins. However, they will likely go to Giant or Gigantic and use their power-up alts to farm with 4 blocks at once, thus getting many coins very fast (this is better than them ruining Instant servers)
  • Bigger map size. Again, not quite sure about this one because the server seems pretty inactive (not sure if that's from these farmers or people just not interested in it). A bigger map can make it harder to savage the smaller players. A bigger map + larger food spawns can make it easier to gain mass without being savaged. 

None of these solutions are perfect, and I hope other people have better ideas than me; lol, but I think it can drastically change the way the server is played for the better. Agma should not be "AFK, savage, power spam, and hold W on the gold block." It should instead be skillful & fun. With these solutions, people would not get so many alts, nor so many coins. Players also wouldn't control the server with such ease and would have to fight others to stay big

Hi Fishy,

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Just a quick reply for today. A more detailed one to follow tomorrow when I have more time!

I like your proposed solutions and need some time to think about the pros and cons of each one. Hopefully I can think of some solutions of my own.

The main reason that I raised this issue was that I think this could be very off-putting to new and potentially fun players if they spawn in this server the first time they play Agma. If this was my first experience of the game I would not be coming back. The more new, fun and skillful players the better as far as I'm concerned!
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#5
Perfect, going to visit that server tomorrow and annoy them in the chat Big Grin

It’s fascinating and frightening to see these guys being so perfectly organized.
I absolutely hate it. That’s absolutely not fair, the absolute opposite of sportsmanship.
However, you can’t just blame them. It’s also the game motivating to do it, and tolerating their behavior. Agma is a hardcore pay to win game in most servers. But not everyone can buy powerups. Some players are literally poor or they are kids and their parents don’t give them money or they are not. Allowed to use the money or whatever. So these people are powerless (literally) and who could blame them for trying to get powers?
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#6
(03-18-2021, 08:25 PM)DoctorFinkle Wrote: I actually made a very similar thread last summer, you can read it here if you want: http://agarioforums.net/showthread.php?tid=66934

I agree with you 100%, these players make the server unplayable. I played there for a few weeks just to chill, but they made this impossible. Anyone who goes anywhere near their sacred corner is instantly ganged up on. Anyone who eats one of them automatically makes their FBI list and is continually bullied, in both the game and the chat. The only way to survive there is by promising them to periodically give the coin farmer your mass, and at that point it is completely pointless.

To some players, Agma is just a giant game of Cookie Clicker lol

I suggest that what we do, is have the Moderator's rise up, and (assuming we have @Sora's blessing on this), create our OWN group called "Moderator's Revenge", and just squish them, using 'all means necessary'. :|

(I can't believe that I am suggesting this. But I bet it would even have some popularity with the masses. I just think we'd have to make sure everyone understands that this, at any other time, would be an egregious abuse of power, and call for the loss of the 'Moderator' role instead.)

It would be kind of like 'Team Busters', but taken to the next higher level. lol (And sanctioned!)


(03-19-2021, 03:13 AM)Redfox Wrote: However, you can’t just blame them. It’s also the game motivating to do it, and tolerating their behavior. Agma is a hardcore pay to win game in most servers. But not everyone can buy powerups. Some players are literally poor or they are kids and their parents don’t give them money or they are not. Allowed to use the money or whatever. So these people are powerless (literally) and who could blame them for trying to get powers?

This section of your message is just utter nonsense, and is actually the next set of propaganda from you, down the same lines as what you did before, and which led ultimately to Sora wanting to ban you, and you scurrying off to hide under a rock instead. So I must speak out.

You are a woman with a brain.

How do you suggest that Sora pays for Agma, if not by this method?? Some components could appear to be 'pay-to-win', but we all have seen how angry Sora gets when someone suggests that is the case. Obviously, that is NOT his intent at all. And I suggest it's his way of allowing people who do have some cash to help him pay for all this, while also giving the opportunity to give gifts to those who are not well off.

The YouTuber's play a role too, with their various giveaways, which spreads further some of the 'pay' abilities to those who can't actually pay.

The general alternative, which is to have all users pay a monthly subscription fee would do a far more complete job of banning all the young kids who aren't blessed by being in a family that is well-off financially.


So fine. If you have a better alternative, then by all means, suggest it!

Otherwise, finally give up on this tired and failed tirade of yours, lest we lose you permanently this time.
Fight the Good Fight
(Listen with lyrics here!)
Make it worth the price we pay!
All your life you've been waiting for your chance,
Pray you'll fit into the Plan.
But you're the master of your own destiny,
So give and take the best that you can!
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#7
Just a quick update, more to follow. I went to the server just now and while the organized farming is still going on, the server is now packed with cartel members and "randoms" and they are actually playing like the server is meant to be played, for the most part anyway. I've never seen it like this. Perhaps one of them read my post!
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#8
(03-19-2021, 07:24 PM)AgmaFan Wrote: Just a quick update, more to follow. I went to the server just now and while the organized farming is still going on, the server is now packed with cartel members and "randoms" and they are actually playing like the server is meant to be played, for the most part anyway. I've never seen it like this. Perhaps one of them read my post!

This reminds me of one day last summer when nearly all of the servers were down except for a few, including XY-Insta. All of Agma was packed into these few servers, and XY-Insta had more than triple the usual number of players. This created a beautiful balance never before seen on this server. A middle class emerged, something that is virtually nonexistent on any other day. For once, server was controlled by PLAYERS, not by FARMERS! I was not a very skilled/experienced player, but I still had a good time nonetheless. I got to meet a few new people and participate in BATTLES (something that people there are never interested in), and I enjoyed it for the few hours that it lasted.
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#9
Deleting my posts won’t solve Agmas Problems.
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#10
I agree with most of the things you guys say but I also like this cartel system and it is interesting how it works and it makes it fun to play imo. I always liked games where you need a "gang" of people to win and you need to the smartest, richest and most scary group of people and it is fun when two groups of people fight eachother and make interesting power fights, it sure brings toxicity but if you are a "random" you can prove yourself worthy to join their cartel-system and from what I know if you are a random, who can communicate, they will often leave you alone, but that is just my thought, I really dislike the cartels farming coins though, the rest of it, I like
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#11
(03-21-2021, 06:41 PM)xRENDEx Wrote: I agree with most of the things you guys say but I also like this cartel system and it is interesting how it works and it makes it fun to play imo. I always liked games where you need a "gang" of people to win and you need to the smartest, richest and most scary group of people and it is fun when two groups of people fight eachother and make interesting power fights, it sure brings toxicity but if you are a "random" you can prove yourself worthy to join their cartel-system and from what I know if you are a random, who can communicate, they will often leave you alone, but that is just my thought, I really dislike the cartels farming coins though, the rest of it, I like

from being on the 'inside' i don't think it's too interesting or organized. No one likes these groups... unless you are a part of them. It is fun to have a group of people play to achieve something, but that shouldn't come at the cost of those who just want to have fun without wasting so much of their time. The 'leaders' are rarely smart and are only there because of IRL money or many hours of wasted time (spent farming). It's a game of gaining respect from others in this group, and no one in this game deserves to decide who is 'worthy' enough to play & who is not (besides Admins and Moderators Tongue). I find they are often toxic due to their egos & they can talk trash but never really do much besides savage. I also dislike them farming coins, but I also dislike them getting thousands of powers & making the server unplayable for others
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#12
How do I move a thread to a different topic?
hi all :)
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#13
welcome to forums Smile

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#14
Hi again,

Apologies for the late response, I've been busy with assignments.

Fishy, I think your suggested solutions could work, especially the bigger food and larger map suggestions. I think XY Insta has the makings of a good, fun server. It is different to other servers but unfortunately it is open to abuse in its current form. I don't think it is a good server to have new players spawn in anyway as they will get continually savaged and give up. The same could be the case for the other servers you mentioned.

I think that some servers are too dominated by the "pros" of the server. This can be intimidating for new players and I think new, potentially fun players can be lost because of this. The pros can also have unwritten rules, such as no random teaming, and the new players can get targeted when they do something like this, both in-game or in the chat. XY Insta is an extreme example of this. A solution to make the game more accessible to new players, could be to have tiered servers. For example, there could be a server especially dedicated to relatively new players, where only players below level X can play in the server. The new players could learn the game without being savaged by the pros. I do realize that this could be open to abuse from alt accounts and may need some moderation. Players that are too good for the server could be "promoted" to a more difficult server. I don't think that every server should be tiered but a server for new players could help attract more players to the game.
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#15
I think there should be a copy of the XY-Insta server without secret rooms or gold blocks. That way, farmers can have their farming server and players can have their playing server.
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